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	<title>Comments on: Board of Church and Society sex-ed writer: Sex outside of marriage can be &#8216;moral, ethical&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: JerryS</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-10175</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JerryS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 15:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-10175</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why do we have a &lt;em&gt;Book of Discipline&lt;/em&gt;? If there is no stomach to enforce its statements, and hold accountable our leaders, then why bother with it?

UMs are not known for holding to standards, and we continue to pay the price for our lack of resolve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do we have a <em>Book of Discipline</em>? If there is no stomach to enforce its statements, and hold accountable our leaders, then why bother with it?</p>
<p>UMs are not known for holding to standards, and we continue to pay the price for our lack of resolve.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-8415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 22:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-8415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a United Methodist pastor, I&#039;m appalled that our denominational leaders allow this type of insubordination to continue. I&#039;m getting sick and tired of trying to defend our denomination when things continue to run unchallenged.

Sin is sin no matter how we try to &quot;dress it up.&quot; It&#039;s still detestable in God&#039;s eyes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a United Methodist pastor, I&#8217;m appalled that our denominational leaders allow this type of insubordination to continue. I&#8217;m getting sick and tired of trying to defend our denomination when things continue to run unchallenged.</p>
<p>Sin is sin no matter how we try to &#8220;dress it up.&#8221; It&#8217;s still detestable in God&#8217;s eyes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-6442</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-6442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My wife and I have been considering joining a local United Methodist Church, but after reading what is on the &quot;Board of Church and Society&quot; site, we are forced to reconsider.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife and I have been considering joining a local United Methodist Church, but after reading what is on the &#8220;Board of Church and Society&#8221; site, we are forced to reconsider.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-5556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 21:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-5556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems a shame that the &quot;progressive&quot; views of many pastors and the GBCS are so far out of line with the views of most United Methodists.

We need to become more involved and &quot;take back&quot; our church.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems a shame that the &#8220;progressive&#8221; views of many pastors and the GBCS are so far out of line with the views of most United Methodists.</p>
<p>We need to become more involved and &#8220;take back&#8221; our church.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4580</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is the type of teaching that turns people away from the UMC. As a UM pastor, it makes me sick to my stomach to hear such apostasy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the type of teaching that turns people away from the UMC. As a UM pastor, it makes me sick to my stomach to hear such apostasy.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4088</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Someone tell me why our tithes go towards this kind of trash? Please?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone tell me why our tithes go towards this kind of trash? Please?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marguerite</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4085</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marguerite]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4085</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, let&#039;s just consider God&#039;s Word a book of SUGGESTIONS! If you don&#039;t like one, don&#039;t worry about it. Just be &quot;ethical and moral&quot; (yeah, do that as you subvert God&#039;s word). If it feels good, do it.

Lord, have mercy on our souls.  

As far as &quot;difficulty&quot; goes, I suppose Jesus had an easy time on the cross dying to redeem us from our sins! Glad Jesus thought it was worth the difficulty of dying for my salvation — and everyone else&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, let&#8217;s just consider God&#8217;s Word a book of SUGGESTIONS! If you don&#8217;t like one, don&#8217;t worry about it. Just be &#8220;ethical and moral&#8221; (yeah, do that as you subvert God&#8217;s word). If it feels good, do it.</p>
<p>Lord, have mercy on our souls.  </p>
<p>As far as &#8220;difficulty&#8221; goes, I suppose Jesus had an easy time on the cross dying to redeem us from our sins! Glad Jesus thought it was worth the difficulty of dying for my salvation — and everyone else&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Worsham</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray Worsham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your apportionments at work!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your apportionments at work!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4051</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jim, thanks for the link to the religious declaration and the endorsements.  

Why am I not surprised that the declaration calls for &quot;A faith-based commitment to sexual and reproductive rights, including access to...abortion.&quot;

How do Methodist clergy and bishops who publicly endorse statements such as this declaration (which are in large part in direct contradiction to the &lt;em&gt;Book of Discipline&lt;/em&gt;) remain on the payroll (or retirement benefits) of the church? Most employers do not require their employees to take an oath to uphold. Yet anyone, especially a manager or executive, who makes public statements against their employer&#039;s policies and procedures is subject to termination of employment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, thanks for the link to the religious declaration and the endorsements.  </p>
<p>Why am I not surprised that the declaration calls for &#8220;A faith-based commitment to sexual and reproductive rights, including access to&#8230;abortion.&#8221;</p>
<p>How do Methodist clergy and bishops who publicly endorse statements such as this declaration (which are in large part in direct contradiction to the <em>Book of Discipline</em>) remain on the payroll (or retirement benefits) of the church? Most employers do not require their employees to take an oath to uphold. Yet anyone, especially a manager or executive, who makes public statements against their employer&#8217;s policies and procedures is subject to termination of employment.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 16:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Daniel is exactly right. It helps to understand the Modern Left&#039;s view of sex if you accept a couple of premises that seem to undergird their thinking:

1) Our sexuality is the primary means of our identity; and
2) We have no more control over our sexual urges than common barnyard animals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel is exactly right. It helps to understand the Modern Left&#8217;s view of sex if you accept a couple of premises that seem to undergird their thinking:</p>
<p>1) Our sexuality is the primary means of our identity; and<br />
2) We have no more control over our sexual urges than common barnyard animals.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4032</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4032</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find it ironic and ridiculous that celibacy in singleness and chastity in marriage is said to not apply to most adults (presumably because the assumption is that it is simply too difficult for them to wait till marriage &quot;in today&#039;s world&quot;) while the &quot;new&quot; teaching of sex with anyone you&#039;d like, as long as they&#039;d like it too, is said to be &quot;more ethically rigorous&quot; than the traditional teachings of the Church which are being tossed aside precisely because they are difficult!  

Our problem is that as a society we totally lack self-control and discipline (which is, as I recall, a fruit of the Spirit).  I suspect this has something to do with the ethic of indulgence that is by necessity an integral part of a consumer culture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it ironic and ridiculous that celibacy in singleness and chastity in marriage is said to not apply to most adults (presumably because the assumption is that it is simply too difficult for them to wait till marriage &#8220;in today&#8217;s world&#8221;) while the &#8220;new&#8221; teaching of sex with anyone you&#8217;d like, as long as they&#8217;d like it too, is said to be &#8220;more ethically rigorous&#8221; than the traditional teachings of the Church which are being tossed aside precisely because they are difficult!  </p>
<p>Our problem is that as a society we totally lack self-control and discipline (which is, as I recall, a fruit of the Spirit).  I suspect this has something to do with the ethic of indulgence that is by necessity an integral part of a consumer culture.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4023</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4023</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hear the words of Bishop N.T. Wright:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Our supposedly selfish genes crave a variety of sexual possibilities. But Jewish, Christian and Muslim teachers have always insisted that lifelong man-plus-woman marriage is the proper context for sexual intercourse. This is not (as is frequently suggested) an arbitrary rule, dualistic in overtone and killjoy in intention. It is a deep structural reflection of the belief in a creator God who has entered into covenant both with his creation and with his people (who carry forward his purposes for that creation). 

Paganism ancient and modern has always found this ethic, and this belief, ridiculous and incredible. But the biblical witness is scarcely confined...to a few verses in St Paul. Jesus&#039; own stern denunciation of sexual immorality would certainly have carried, to his hearers, a clear implied rejection of all sexual behavior outside heterosexual monogamy. This isn&#039;t a matter of &quot;private response to Scripture&quot; but of the uniform teaching of the whole Bible, of Jesus himself, and of the entire Christian tradition.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hear the words of Bishop N.T. Wright:</p>
<blockquote><p>Our supposedly selfish genes crave a variety of sexual possibilities. But Jewish, Christian and Muslim teachers have always insisted that lifelong man-plus-woman marriage is the proper context for sexual intercourse. This is not (as is frequently suggested) an arbitrary rule, dualistic in overtone and killjoy in intention. It is a deep structural reflection of the belief in a creator God who has entered into covenant both with his creation and with his people (who carry forward his purposes for that creation). </p>
<p>Paganism ancient and modern has always found this ethic, and this belief, ridiculous and incredible. But the biblical witness is scarcely confined&#8230;to a few verses in St Paul. Jesus&#8217; own stern denunciation of sexual immorality would certainly have carried, to his hearers, a clear implied rejection of all sexual behavior outside heterosexual monogamy. This isn&#8217;t a matter of &#8220;private response to Scripture&#8221; but of the uniform teaching of the whole Bible, of Jesus himself, and of the entire Christian tradition.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4022</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4022</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK for real, how does this stuff actually happen — and be allowed to happen?

Where is the accountability these people face?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK for real, how does this stuff actually happen — and be allowed to happen?</p>
<p>Where is the accountability these people face?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James-Michael Smith</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James-Michael Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 18:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why am I not surprised at her points after seeing &quot;Unitarian&quot; by her name??  

For a much richer and Biblical take on sex, I recommend the following wholeheartedly! 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.examiner.com/x-8276-Methodist-Examiner~y2009m9d3-Sex-and-the-Christian&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.examiner.com/x-8276-Methodist-Examiner~y2009m9d3-Sex-and-the-Christian&lt;/a&gt;

Blessings,

JMS]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why am I not surprised at her points after seeing &#8220;Unitarian&#8221; by her name??  </p>
<p>For a much richer and Biblical take on sex, I recommend the following wholeheartedly! </p>
<p><a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-8276-Methodist-Examiner~y2009m9d3-Sex-and-the-Christian" rel="nofollow">http://www.examiner.com/x-8276-Methodist-Examiner~y2009m9d3-Sex-and-the-Christian</a></p>
<p>Blessings,</p>
<p>JMS</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4012</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4012</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Linda Bales and more than 200 UMC clergy and staff have signed onto Haffner&#039;s &quot;declaration&quot; that anything goes when it comes to sexuality, including sex outside marriage, sex at any age (no downward limit), sex between all ages, all sex acts, etc. The declaration is wide open.

I wonder how parishioners would feel if they knew what their pastors were advocating.

Here&#039;s the declaration:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.religiousinstitute.org/religious-declaration-on-sexual-morality-justice-and-healing&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.religiousinstitute.org/religious-declaration-on-sexual-morality-justice-and-healing&lt;/a&gt;

[&lt;strong&gt;Ed. note:&lt;/strong&gt; The list of endorsers is at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.religiousinstitute.org/list-of-endorsers&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.religiousinstitute.org/list-of-endorsers&lt;/a&gt;.]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda Bales and more than 200 UMC clergy and staff have signed onto Haffner&#8217;s &#8220;declaration&#8221; that anything goes when it comes to sexuality, including sex outside marriage, sex at any age (no downward limit), sex between all ages, all sex acts, etc. The declaration is wide open.</p>
<p>I wonder how parishioners would feel if they knew what their pastors were advocating.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the declaration:  <a href="http://www.religiousinstitute.org/religious-declaration-on-sexual-morality-justice-and-healing" rel="nofollow">http://www.religiousinstitute.org/religious-declaration-on-sexual-morality-justice-and-healing</a></p>
<p>[<strong>Ed. note:</strong> The list of endorsers is at <a href="http://www.religiousinstitute.org/list-of-endorsers" rel="nofollow">http://www.religiousinstitute.org/list-of-endorsers</a>.]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://methodistthinker.com/2009/09/04/church-and-society-sex-outside-marriage/#comment-4009</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://methodistthinker.com/?p=8160#comment-4009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The General Board of Church and Society continues to be a blight on this denomination.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The General Board of Church and Society continues to be a blight on this denomination.</p>
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